Everyday our panel of writers tries to help make Your and Our sports games better. SOMETIMES WE SUCCEED.
Friday, January 25, 2013
Beefing up the D
With the lack of options, sliding and unresponsiveness on the defensive side of the ball in NBA2K, control when relating to defense is at an all-time-low. Defense feels more like luck and good fortune than it does skill. We're forced to use cheesy methods like zones and other exploits to compete with the offense. We need less times where defensive players fail to rotate and more where they bail out an offensive player by fouling or simply fail to make a play. Less instances where guys in the paint can pump fake to their hearts desire and more times where defenders poke the ball away and attack offensive players in the paint. Like mentioned on a recent Sim Nation Radio show, defense has been a step too slow for years, and its starting to hurt gameplay as a whole. Here are some fixes:
0. Success/Failure Model - For years flawed mechanics have given users a way to "win" even though they weren't being successful. The reactionary animations from steal attempts were a prime example of that. In the past players could go for a token steal attempt, force the passer into an animation and completely throw off the timing of floppy shoot-and-catch plays. Notice what I didn't say was steal the ball, because the attempt itself was disruptive. Wins like these that aren't tied to success are bad. A better model would reward actual steals and punish a player who misses with horrible defensive positioning and fouls. And that is the biggest aspect of better defense, it has to be balanced or we run into the same issues with the way zones are represented. Sadly, they are more effective than they are in real life because of bad mechanics, hopefully this is resolved next year.
1. Match speed of offensive player - The first of the things that just have to be assumed for defense to work correctly. No defender jogs while his assignment is sprinting. DOESN'T HAPPEN. They try their best to stay attached to the player they are defending. While they can be separated by screens, dribble moves or just getting beat, the excessive sliding and lack of control from using turbo must stop. Turbo should still be used as the aggressive modifier but defensive players must automatically match the speed of their "covers". If they are sprinting so should the defender. Another idea here is to implement something similar to the auto-sprint that Madden uses.
2. Defensive Square Up - For too long we've been reduced to sliding, guessing if we're properly in front of the defender and its simply too easy to lose the "sweet spot" between the defender and the basket because we're constantly moving. L2 has to be implemented as balance mechanic for our players to "set up" between the basket and the offensive player to prevent dribble penetration. Now this won't allow instant recovery or reposition a beat defender but it will square us up in good defensive position to play proper defense.
3. Right Stick Contests - This can't be reduced to a single "hands up" and has to expand itself and allow countless animations for the brand of physical defense the NBA is known for. Turn the right stick into the "D" Stick on defense. Getting in good position and pushing the R Stick at the offensive player should be the go-to brand of defense in NBA 2K. Not trying to block everything. While this shouldn't guarantee a miss (but should rarely draw fouls unless out of position) the most important aspect is a plethora of contest animations that show that we're making things harder on the offensive player. We're big fans of the auto-contest mechanic, but only if the right stick is pointed at the offensive player and the defender is in close proximity.
4. Play Passing Lanes - This was a great mechanic in previous 2K games, but it was toned down because of imbalance. Players could try to jump passing lanes and were rewarded even when they were late and out of position. This should be based on player/timing but this mechanic has the ability to open up so much of the game (like fake passes..can't wait!). Quickly pressing the right stick twice (because it should require anticipation) towards a pass should make our defenders try to intercept the ball in flight. Success should be based on a number of factors, but most importantly it must be balanced with contact fouls, higher fatigue drain and result in failure putting the defender totally out of position. Let's see the quick plays menu bring back cuts to the basket as well. We can't wait to backdoor overzealous defenders with fake passes.
5. Tight D/Ball Denial - There simply has to be a way to attach ourselves and initiate physical contact with an offensive player anywhere on the court--as long as there are consequences and ways to counter it. This brand of defense was a great feature in 2K10 (by pushing the right stick at the offensive player) but was too imbalanced in favor of the defense. That year it even prevented us from passing to players, a big NO-NO. We should always have the ability to pass to any player on the court--even if we see catches under duress and deflections. To balance it we need to see high fatigue drain as well as a higher amount of contact and holding fouls so that it can't be abused. When we put our defenders in tight D this should be the brand of defense we see applied. We can't stress enough, however, how fatigue and fouls have to prevent this kind of defense from being played all (or even most) of the game. We would also like to see the better offensive players constantly separate from tight D by coming back to the ball, running defenders off screens, pushing off and using constant movement.
6. Airborne Defenders - Want to see something sad? Bruce sent me a tweet that he got the other day where a guy said "challenging shots by timing jumps needs to still be the most effective way of lowering shot %" now how scary is that? A coach for 6 yr olds can tell you the intention is not to leave your feet to contest shots. But since blocks and steals have been the only way to defend in 2K for years, there's this belief that somehow that's the way it's supposed to be done. That's on you 2K. Let's not miseducate users on how to play basketball. To balance offense/defense we need to see the ability for offensive players to draw fouls on over-aggressive airborne defenders by pushing the shot-stick in their direction. Nothing prevents non-basketball behavior like consequences.
7. More Loose Balls - We love the new dribbling system, but the NBA is not a league where you go through every arsenal in your dribble repertoire until you find one that works. Constant collisions into defenders should result in the ball-handler losing the ball at a high rate. This will depend on the player of course, but we must implement more consequences from over-dribbling. Nothing will balance out over-determined dribble penetration more than turnovers. We like that dribbling into our teammates results in losing the ball, shouldn't we see the same thing when dribbling into crowds? The current system bails the offensive player out too often with reaching fouls when they dribble into groups of players, lets see them lose control of the ball on a more consistent basis.
8. Better Help Defense - Czar talks about this constantly. Defenses in NBA 2K must rotate and react realistically or the game can't ever reach its potential. Primary ball-handlers getting to the basket in the pick and roll? Players cutting with no reactionary movement by help defenders? Properly rotating defenses will not make them perfect as long as fouls are properly displayed. Include instances where defenders rotate and foul the offensive player, but the missed basic assignments must happen less.
9. Fouls/FT Attempts - This entire attempt to make defense more user-friendly, realistic and effective fails completely if 2K refuses to display the proper amount of FT attempts on simulation settings. There are so many fouls that go uncalled: Post players get hit, guys rarely called for contact while going for blocks, where are the contact and holding fouls when guys attach themselves to our PGs trying to steal every inbound? Defenses foul people. ALOT. If no whistles blow then the game becomes imbalanced. Chris Paul doesn't always have to blow past a center or make him fall down, let's see some instances where slower defenders get called for blocking fouls and hand-checks in mismatches. From a strategy aspect interactions like that are golden! Its as if the developers are scared to call fouls because users will get angry a la the penalties called in Madden. 2K fans are a different brand of player and when we say we want simulation gameplay? We mean it.
10. Out-of-Bounds Deflections - Another of the aspects of defense that has to be a given for it to be effective are some of the common sense deflections the CPU makes. Deflections out of bounds are just the kind of mechanic 2K needs to prevent the game from being sloppy with turnovers but also as a way to realistically limit the offense. Out of bounds Deflections could limit the amount of passes into the post. We still have too many instances where we can pass the ball into the painted area with defenders in good position. Deflections out of bounds by the defense don't raise turnovers drastically, and prevent a steal-happy game, all while rewarding the defense by forcing the offense to operate later in the shot clock. Most importantly, these have to happen without user input if a player is in good position.
11. Defensive Shading - Wouldn't it be cool if we could use the right stick in conjunction with the left stick on defense to shade the offensive player a certain direction and make it harder for him to beat us right/left? We like to think so.
12. Turnovers - Another way to alleviate the pressure defenses suffer realistically is adding more execution errors. Watch any NBA game and expect to see turnovers where players miscommunicate, take their eyes off passes and sometimes just mishandle the ball. This has to be an element of 2K on simulation or we run into the issue Madden has had for years because its QBs are too accurate. The CPU is notorious for 1 and 2 turnover games and instances like this should be rare. Mistakes should happen on simulation. Particularly on teams with a low chemistry rating. See the LA Lakers for details.
13. Screens - All defenders are not created equal. SCREENS EITHER. Lets start to see the differences between the players/teams that execute well and those that don't. Let's also see instances where better defenders avoid, slip and navigate screens well instead of the one-size-fits-all animation we currently see.
12. Charges, Crowding, Giving Space - We've been fans of a more quick and intuitive control scheme for defense for some time. The "D" Stick could help here as well. Using the right stick to get in position to draw charges (pushing away from the defender) get physical, crowd him or try to root a post player off his spot (into the offensive player) and give a quicker guys space (away + aggressive modifier) so we won't get beat easily (hold on, did we just create a mechanic where slower players may be forced to give quick players "space"? I think so!) as long as getting physical is balanced with foul calls along with forcing offensive players into gather animations/losing the ball we're all in favor of it. As long as there are multiple outcomes it only adds to the chessgame/strategy we all want so badly.
13. No Morphing, Stopping Momentum or Instant Recovery - Beat is beat. One of the things we would like to see done differently are the amazing out-of-position defensive plays and recovery 2K allows. While these should happen from time to time, making them routine takes away from their 'WOW' aspect. Lets see less players on the perimeter beat only to amazingly recover and cut off a drive to the basket by colliding with the offensive player. Defenders even have the ability to completely stop player momentum in the fastbreak/open floor this year. BAD MOVE 2K. If the defense rotates properly a defender getting beat on the perimeter is only half the battle. And as stated before, please don't be afraid to call fouls because you think it will slow down gameplay.
14. Auto-Defense - Many people in the "Sim" community won't support this suggestion in particular, but this is how bad control on defense has become. It may require time for people to adapt to the new controls, and some people just aren't defensively inclined. Defense has been dysfunctional for so long that people may need an adjustment period. For that reason, I believe we should have the option for the CPU to play defense without user input by clicking R3. The user would regain control when their defenders controlled the rebound. *cringes from incoming barrage*
15. Post Windows - There's an inherent problem when we can still easily pass the ball into the area closest to the basket. Few things in 2K need more addressing than this belief that post players don't need to fight for position/aren't separated by their ability to do so. Its like the ability to hold post position is a given. We can still take swingmen, post up for an instant and then quickly use their speed to beat the defender with spin or dribble moves. I love Thaddeus Young, but he's a player who gets his points from hustle. When I can easily post him up in 2K and shoot jump hook after jump hook something is wrong. Tim Duncan is great partly because he's uncanny strong in his base and almost impossible to root off his spot. It would be nice to see a constant fight for post position and shorter windows to get guys the ball based on ability. True post players would shine here providing long and constant opportunities, while guys like Rip Hamilton and Chris Paul would have defenders easily retake position and lose the ball while trying to post up. Every year gameplay takes away things that guys can't do in reality and we hope a post play overhaul is next.
16. Defender Momentum - Czar and I spent time talking about this on his show a few weeks ago. The instances where scrambling defenders run out to open players and then instantly stop their momentum and get into great defensive position need to be rare. Putting defenses into scramble mode is the goal of every offense. A scrambling defender is easily taken advantage of and we need to see two types of rotations 1) rotating under control (i.e. slowly) or 2) one that is fast and allows them to be easily beat on the perimeter (based on matchup of course) This is exhibit #1 of why zones are too effective. We don't defenses to be impenetrable, we're just fine with balanced and displaying their real strengths and weaknesses. Realistic defensive movement would create much more of the open looks we see in the NBA.
Well that's our list. Hope you enjoyed it. Our fingers are crossed for a more defense-friendly NBA 2K14.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
excellent!
ReplyDelete+1
ReplyDeleteWas shot blocking mentioned because blocking dunks do not happen
ReplyDeletethey need to bring back alot of things missing from 2k8 and 2k11. Defense getting the shaft for offense is stupid on their part. Also get rid of all this auto shot contesting crap! why are they dumbing defense to the point where everyone just holds a triggers to have the game contest shots for them!!! We have ability to contest shots by raising hands to disturb shots as well as giving a full contest by jumping which bothers the shooter even more. Screw dumbing down for casuals, get back to the user controlled defense ONLY
ReplyDeleteGreat read! 2k need to get to work on this list ASAP real talk
ReplyDeleteI realize the last suggestion may not be very popular with the SIM community, but we have to keep in mind that while we don't want D to be easier (whole 'nother can of worms) we want to make it more accessible and have more options. We also have to consider that it may not be 1 yr process and that defense may not be where it needs to be in 2K14.
ReplyDeleteThat last one hurts me to read, might as well play, Hot Potato defense like people in ranked matches
Deletedefense is simple, shading, both hands up, defensive shuffling, and jumping to contest a jump shot. all 2k needs to do is make movement easier and have CPU controlled teammates give real help defense problem solved
ReplyDeletejumping to contest a jumpshot? #facepalm
ReplyDeleteOn "0. Success/Failure model", I have no idea why you are saying the words 'in the past'. That nonsense is still in the game, and it's even worse.
ReplyDeleteIn 2K11, there was simply a quickly played out animation, if the defender attempted to steal the ball but failed, where the ball handler would dribble the ball away from the defender and back again.
In 2K13 however, when they attempt and don't succeed, they force you into a 2-3 second dribble animation where the ball-handler is just looking for the ball. This is what would constitute defense on quick ranked games pre-patch. Instead of backing up a bit to respect a player's shot (and when I say player I don't mean Rondo, I mean people who can shoot the three and take you off the dribble), they would literally come out of the 3pt line and meet you about 4 feet away from it and basically hug you. You would think I should be able to blow by them with someone like Iggy or Gallo right? Wrong. They press the steal button just as I'm about to blow past them and prevent me from moving. This is what I saw pre-patch. 2K eventually bumped up the reach-in fouls which stopped that crap (although they really did it to stop the steal spamming, which is a different matter).
Not only that, I've seen times on Team-Up where a player is trying to push the ball up quickly, running at full speed, a defender will come up to meet them nearly half-way and literally completely stop them in a split second with a steal attempt...which forces the ball handler into a three second dribble recovery animation. It makes a mockery of Newtonian physics. It is GTA-esque physics, where you're travelling at about 150 mph with a motorbike, and then you nudge a solid object nailed to the ground and instead of you being sent flying into the air, you slow down to a halt in a split second.
Despicable.
I forgot to say between my third and fourth paragraph that about a month after 2K bumped up the reach-in fouls rate with the patch, they lowered it (even when they took a poll on OS in which 60% said that it should be kept at the high rate).You could say they took the middle ground that some people in the "lower it" crowd were asking for, so even though steal success by spamming the steal button is non-existent, steal attempt spamming is now back, and I described an example in the fourth paragraph.
ReplyDeleteLastly, I don't know why you want an Auto Defense feature. People can already play off-ball defense. All the complaints about people not wanting to play the CPU would be right this time because ALL of the 5 defenders would be controlled by the CPU. If this feature were to be implemented, it would have to be balanced out by an Auto Offense feature, but then, if people used both features, people would just be playing coach mode. I would suppose that would be OK, if the the CPU didn't get any ratings boost like it does on offline modes. Then one could make an argument that a Sim player should be smarter than the CPU and therefore rip it apart, and it will eventually force the Casual to start learning how to play the game in order to compete. If that actually happened, then the feature could be a good thing. But then again, people might be able to abuse aspects of the game because of the low difficulty, and that might turn out to be a more reliable way to win.
ReplyDeleteSome good points. had no idea they adjusted the steals back to "steal spam is OK". Not good. I had no idea as I was done with online play after one game. You'll probably notice that I always mention simulation in this piece, as i'm a big fan of allowing each playerbase to play their style. the only problem is that simulation players dont have that ability unless we only play friends. I offer auto D because it may take 2K longer than we anticipate to fix the defense in its current state simply cant go on. lastly, there are other gameplay aspects where we accept auto-CPU behavior (rebounding, runouts, screens) and no one bats an eye.
ReplyDeleteFair point on your last sentence, but all players of all styles should be working from the same base. The difficulty should only affect shooting windows and certain sliders. So, what I'm saying is that no one should be able to play defense by using the steal spam technique to prevent people from moving, but on a casual setting people can be allowed to throw down more ridiculous dunks at a higher rate than normal, and they should be able to make more threes.
ReplyDelete1 thing i like abt the auto sprint is that you wouldnt always have to dunk. dunk attempts are bad shots in certain situations but it does it automatically bcuz ur pressing turbo.
ReplyDelete^ good point
ReplyDeleteAdmiring the persistence you put into your blog and in depth
ReplyDeleteinformation you present. It's awesome to come across a blog every once in a while that isn't the same
outdated rehashed information. Excellent read! I've bookmarked your site and I'm adding your RSS feeds
to my Google account.
Feel free to visit my web blog - 激安レイバン
My developer is trying to persuade me to move to .net from PHP.
ReplyDeleteI have always disliked the idea because of the expenses.
But he's tryiong none the less. I've been using WordPress on a variety of websites for about a year and am nervous about
switching to another platform. I have heard very good things about blogengine.
net. Is there a way I can import all my wordpress posts into it?
Any kind of help would be really appreciated!
Also visit my web page: オークリーメガネ
Attractive element of content. I simply stumbled upon your web site
ReplyDeleteand in accession capital to claim that I get actually loved
account your weblog posts. Anyway I'll be subscribing to your augment and even I achievement you get entry to constantly fast.
my web site :: オークリー 店舗
Everything is very open with a clear clarification of
ReplyDeletethe issues. It was truly informative. Your website is very useful.
Thank you for sharing!
my site - オークリー サングラス
Hey! I realize this is kind of off-topic however
ReplyDeleteI needed to ask. Does operating a well-established blog like yours require
a large amount of work? I'm completely new to writing a blog but I do write in my journal every day. I'd
like to start a blog so I can easily share my own experience and thoughts online.
Please let me know if you have any kind of recommendations or tips for new aspiring blog owners.
Appreciate it!
Feel free to visit my homepage; 激安レイバン
Pretty element of content. I just stumbled upon your website and in accession capital to claim that I
ReplyDeleteacquire actually enjoyed account your weblog posts. Anyway I will
be subscribing on your augment or even I success you get
right of entry to constantly fast.
My blog post: オークリー
Hi! I know this is kinda off topic but I was wondering which blog platform are you using for this site?
ReplyDeleteI'm getting sick and tired of Wordpress because I've had issues with
hackers and I'm looking at alternatives for another platform. I would be awesome if you could point me in the direction of a good platform.
Feel free to visit my site ロレックスコピー
I like the helpful information you provide in your articles.
ReplyDeleteI will bookmark your blog and check again here regularly.
I am quite certain I will learn lots of new stuff right here!
Good luck for the next!
Here is my weblog :: monster beats
This website was... how do you say it? Relevant!
ReplyDelete! Finally I've found something that helped me. Thanks a lot!
my website; エアジョーダン
What's up, yeah this piece of writing is actually nice and I have learned lot of things from it on the topic of blogging. thanks.
ReplyDeleteAlso visit my web-site - diamondlinks review
Thanks foг sharing your thoughts about socіal ωork.
ReplyDeleteRegards
Feel free to suгf to mу wеb page .
.. disque dur SSD